Kiir, Machar no part of S. Sudan solution: Ex-official

By Mohammed Taha Tawakel, Abdu Abdelkhrim Saleh

ADDIS ABABA 

South Sudan's former foreign minister Deng Alore believes that President Salva Kiir and sacked vice president Riek Machar are not part of a solution to the country's crisis.

In an exclusive interview with Anadolu Agency, Alore called on both Kiir and Machar to agree on a "neutral" figure to form a transitional government to help resolve the South Sudanese crisis.

Alore spoke about genesis of the crisis, its allegiances and intrigues, as well as the factors complicating the crisis and rendering the Addis Ababa peace process a difficult affair. He also spoke about the repercussions of Ugandan military intervention, IGAD's mediation role, and other related issues.

Alore is a former senior official, both in the governments of Sudan and South Sudan before and after the independence of South Sudan. Immediately after the mid-December 2013 crisis in Juba, he, along with ten other high officials, was rounded up and put behind bars.

He then became one of the seven former officials released and joined the IGAD-mediated South Sudan peace process in Addis Ababa. As the seven formed their own front at the talks, he became the leader of the band joining the recently launched Intra-SPLM/A Dialogue Forum under the auspices of IGAD.

Anadolu Agency: What is the intra-party dialogue forum for? What purpose does it serve in the face of stalled peace negotiations?

Deng Alore: The history of South Sudan is the history of the Sudan People's Liberation Movement/Army (SPLM/A). It is the history of armed struggle. It is the SPLM/A that created South Sudan.

All from the beginning of the armed struggle up to independence, it was SPLM/A. South Sudan's politburo represents SPLM/A. SPLM/A provides a point of reference for the government in South Sudan. The values of the people of South Sudan are embodied in SPLM/A.

We say SPLM/A has nothing to do with the recent violence punctuated by the killing of innocent civilians in South Sudan. We therefore believe the intra-party dialogue forum is a viable alternative to solve the problem.

Initiating the forum, the ruling parties of South Africa and Ethiopia knew the importance of the SPLM/A in the politics and public life of South Sudan. IGAD and the AU have also welcomed the initiative.

AA: To what extent are South Sudan's President Salva Kiir and the leader of the SPLM/A-in-Opposition contributing to the crisis in South Sudan? To what extent are they negatively affecting the Addis Ababa peace process?

Alore: Both of them are responsible for the crisis and impediments to the solution. Many people put the blame on Salva Kiir alone. It is because he is the president.

Riek Machar says he had good reasons for what he did, for his roles in the crisis and afterward. For Riek Machar, it was self-defense. He said they came for his life and he had to defend his life.

AA: Let's forget their reasons. Are they responsible or not for what's happened?

Alore: They are responsible, both of them. There is a difference, though, in the roles each play negatively to the whole issue. We all know there have been killings of innocent civilians after the mid-December crisis.

Since December 15, 2014, many people have been killed. The innocent civilians killed in Juba on December 15 – and the days and weeks after that – are the Nuer people. Salva Kiir is responsible for all that.

He is responsible for what took place on that eventful day in Juba. On the other hand, Dinka people were targeted in the violence that took place in Jonglei State. All those who played a role in that violence should be held to account.

The recently instituted African Union Commission of Inquiry for South Sudan should investigate who did what. The U.N. should also be involved in this. We should coordinate the efforts of these bodies to get to the truth of who did what in the crisis.

No one should get away with it with impunity. All parties should undergo investigation.

AA: There are those who think an interim government drawn from both parties should be put in place. You never seem to buy into this. Why the pessimism on your part?

Alore: It is not a matter of being optimistic or pessimistic. We should see facts on the ground. The situation on the ground is war. It is a crisis situation. This created its own peculiar circumstance.

The Nuer tribesmen do not accept the presidency of the incumbent Salva Kiir. And those outside of the Nuer ethnic line also have their own reservations. On the other hand, the Dinka people have reservations about Riek Machar.

But there are also Dinka people who align with Riek Machar's camp, while some are opposed to him. Therefore, it is difficult in this context to form a national reconciliation government.

There are a number of complex issues ahead and both of them [Kiir and Machar] are not perceived as being capable of solving these complexities. We think the SPLM/A should move in at this point to solve the problem.

Dialogue among the SPLM/A is the only way that would bring about peace in South Sudan. The SPLM/A, as I pointed out, does not have blood on its hands. The two individuals, however, have been stained with citizens' blood.

It is therefore needful to appoint one nation-loving [patriotic] SPLM/A member and entrust him with the task of leading the proposed transitional government. This can be done as an alternative.

AA: Your judgment sounds a bit harsh. These men were elected by the people. Why rob them of a second chance to serve in the proposed interim government?

Alore: In the election we are going to hold, every citizen will be eligible to elect and to be elected. This will go according to the constitution. That does not exclude Salva Kiir, Riek Machar or anybody else for that matter.

An independent electoral commission should be put in place. Democratic and judicial institutions should also be there. The current intra-party dialogue is focused on these matters. I believe anyone who gets elected for the interim government should not be allowed to vie in the regular elections.

Therefore, South Sudanese politicians should choose between the two. But, as I observe, everybody seems to be attracted to both the elections proposed for the future of South Sudan.

AA: Is the pack of seven that you lead standing on the fence?

Alore: We are on the side of the people of South Sudan. If this stand of ours should be interpreted as standing in the middle, so be it. But we are for democratic system building.

Therefore, we should not impose a solution from the Kiir camp or from the Machar camp. The solution should come from the people themselves. The SPLM/A is the only party that represents the interest of the people of South Sudan. It is an umbrella party.

So let the people elect the interim government. We the seven released prisoners are former leaders and members with the politburo. We will not involve Sudan in the interim government. Our priority is to see the extrication of the people of South Sudan from the current crisis.

AA: You claim impartiality, but it seems that – in your heart – you side with Riek Machar.

Alore: I have a common understanding with Riek Machar, it is true. It is not an affiliation in any way, but a like-mindedness of principles concerning issues of democracy, internal reform, power sharing.

But in terms of a military solution to the problem, we go our different ways. Before the crisis, Riek Machar was close to us. But the alternative Riek Machar chose was not palatable to us; we had reservations then on that alternative, as we have now.

In terms of our political stands and opinions, we are very much alike. Our point of reference is the SPLM. It is with the facilitation of the ANC and the EPRDF and under the auspices of IGAD that the intra-party dialogue forum was made possible and is being held now.

AA:  The Machar camp isn't taking part in the intra-party dialogue. How can we expect any result from a process that excludes a major party to the conflict?

Alore: We expect the SPLM/A-in-Opposition to join shortly. We have been in contact with Gen. Taban Deng Gai [chief SPLM/A-in-Opposition negotiator at the Addis talks]. Taban Deng, we hope, will come on board soon.

Riek Machar will provide support, we hope. Machar told me so by telephone. Soon we expect Gen. Taban Deng to join in the intra-party dialogue forum.

AA: Frankly speaking, is the crisis ethnic-driven or ideologically motivated?

Alore: At first, the crisis began as a power struggle within the SPLM/A. Unfortunately, it eventually assumed an ethnic dimension. It is narrow-minded to make it seem like the root causes are ethnic. Our generation has nothing to do with such ethnic bigotry. We don't believe in ethnicity.

What we believe in is the need to all stand as one nation and work for that nation. The SPLM/A never differentiate ethnically. What is troubling is the fact that the majority of people in Upper Nile are Nuer, while Bahr El-Ghazi have states whose majority people are from Dinka.

We therefore oppose anyone who foments discord among the people of South Sudan. The situation on the ground demands wisdom and level-headedness.

AA: Some say you have failed as a state. They suggest that you rejoin Sudan, become part of Uganda or put yourselves under UN administration. What is your comment on this?

Alore: There are two fronts who seem to take pleasure in our troubles. But a destabilized South Sudan affects the whole region. There would be a spillover effect. South Sudan independence is not a gift. It was the result of sacrifices. It was the result of a referendum.

Therefore, that line of thinking is unacceptable. We may differ in our political stands and opinions. But concerning our independence and sovereignty, we all are one and the same. Our priority should be building a new nation.

And we have a lot to learn from the current crisis. For the fair-minded, it is evident that they are making a mountain out of a molehill. They want to divide us. There are nations that have found themselves in a similar problem. They are still struggling to come out of the crises they faced.

We have the capacity to build a nation. The crisis was created due to self-interest; two individuals feeding their self-interests. All those involved in the crisis in South Sudan should be held to account.

In fact, the situation is also frustrating. Our partners, the Europeans and Americans, have also been frustrated by the lack of a solution to the crisis that has been afflicting us for months. No one should be allowed to impose anything on us.

AA: There are people fleeing the crisis in South Sudan and demanding that Khartoum restore their Sudanese citizenship. Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir has said this.

Alore: I personally understand the statement made by al-Bashir. I know al-Bashir intimately. We were one nation, one government. It is only normal that brothers should feel such sympathies towards each other.

Conversely, if a similar crisis befell Sudan, citizens of that country would for sure seek refuge in South Sudan by choice. Anyhow, the fact of one nation has now become history. South Sudan is now a new nation.

But we will remain two nations that have special relations.

AA:  Some observers say Kiir favors reunion with Sudan. Is that true?

Alore: It is false. Neither Salva Kiir nor Riek Machar can say such a thing. Nobody has the right to lead towards that. It is the right of the people of South Sudan to choose. And they chose in a referendum.

Al-Bashir said what he said due to his sympathies for the people of South Sudan. We have also similar sympathy towards the people of Sudan. But we will not negotiate our independence.

AA: It seems the IGAD-mediated talks in Addis Ababa are dogged by mistrust.

Alore: IGAD is an organization that has played a big role. IGAD had a decisive role in the processes that led to our independence. In the current crisis, it was IGAD that came up with a proposal.

But IGAD has its own problem. Member countries have problems. Somalia has its own problems to solve. Eritrea is a suspended member. Being a member with IGAD, Uganda has been part of the problem rather than being part of the solution.

Sudan was at first inclined towards Salva Kiir. Such divisions among member states weakened the role of IGAD and undermined its credibility.

Sudan and Uganda are influential members of IGAD. From what we gather recently, Sudan is becoming impartial in terms of South Sudan. The two countries that have been consistently impartial are Ethiopia and Kenya.

We appeal to the two countries to come to their senses and play positive roles in the crisis in South Sudan, as well as in the ongoing peace process.

AA: What have you done to encourage Uganda and Sudan to adopt an impartial position?

Alore: We met with [Ugandan] President Yoweri Museveni in Kampala last week. We held a successful discussion for two hours. We are aware that President Museveni has understood the case.

We asked him to be part of the solution and we are expecting a positive response. We do not want him to be part of the problem. Uganda's historical partnership will be undermined.

Museveni condemns the killing of civilians. We expect him to provide clear and strong support to the intra-party dialogue and IGAD. We expect an immediate withdrawal of Ugandan forces from South Sudan.

AA: You told us about IGAD and the initiative to launch the intra-party dialogue. Do you believe the dialogue should be led by the EPRDF and the ANC?

Alore: I do not see any double-standard. It is done under the auspices of IGAD. The two parties [Ethiopia's EPRDF and South Africa's ANC] took the initiative.

The commencement of the dialogue has been successful. We discussed three issues: security, the ceasefire and the SPLM contribution.

The second issue was on ways of solving the problem through the SPLM, and the third was a proposal regarding the composition of an interim government, which will solve the problem in South Sudan. It seems there is understanding on this matter.

AA: Can you explain why you were detained?

Alore: I was detained hours after I arrived in Juba from Addis Ababa on December 15, 2013. The chief-of-staff was with me. It was 9pm when I arrived home.

Soon after, there was gunfire. I was preparing to go to the USA, as I was scheduled to travel to the USA on December 19, 2013. The gunfire was light at the beginning, but afterwards there was heavy artillery shelling.

Then I was imprisoned. While under arrest, we heard that there was an ethnic component and that Nuer were being targeted. But in Jonglei, the attacks targeted Dinka. Under IGAD pressure, we were released, and have been calling for the release of the four remaining detainees ever since.

AA: Are there any messages you would like to convey?

Alore: Tolerance is important to the people of South Sudan. Forgiveness is also important for the sake of the nation. The deal is not compatible with our values and principles.

I would like to tell Kiir and Machar that leaders should forego personal glory for the sake of the nation. That is the sacrifice to pay. Doing this does not mean that one defeated the other, but it would benefit the South Sudanese people.

The people never gain from conflict; they only become losers. I would like to urge both [Kiir and Machar] to take the lead in finding a solution to the problem they caused themselves.

Kiir should fully cooperate with IGAD and make a real contribution to intra-party dialogue. I urge him to refrain from pushing the country to the brink of civil war.

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